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Teach-In Transcript: Q&A/ Discussion
Teach-In Transcript: Q&A/ Discussion
Amanda:..And it worked pretty well…Just saying, I’m an expert on everything, and I’m getting
really tired. Taylor, hi. Please make an announcement. Ten seconds, I’m gonna time that bell.
Taylor: For all the students in the room, tomorrow, our Student Union meeting is happening at…7
o’clock? The Student Union meeting is happening at 6:30. And the planning meeting is at 5:30.
Lauren Gjessing, Class of 2017: In the Birch kitchen.
Greta: And the meeting is going to be in Sontag, probably, because there’s a play in the Foundry.
Amanda: Can we write it up on the board, to make sure everyone gets that? So spread it around,
okay? So you’re the remaining few. It would be great if we had remembered to make that
announcement earlier, but we have a lot going on. Tell five other people who you knew weren’t
here when the Student Union meeting is–What? Oh god, there’s Facebook. Whatever! Grassroots
organizing forever!
How are we doing it? Jane is going to tell you how we’re doing it, because I’ve been hogging the
microphone.
Jane: Okay, so, the main, there’s two things, right? Number one is that you guys should all sit in
these people’s seats because they vacated them just for you. Except for you, Micah, you stay
seated. [laughter] So we’re going to walk a fine line between allowing our panelists to live lives
outside of this one moment and this one room that they spend a lot of time in and having a really
important conversation with each other.
So what’s going to happen is we’re going to take stack. And I will add you to the list of people who
can ask questions. We’re going to try to keep it to just, you know–I’m really tired of using the
timer, so just employ upon yourself, like, brevity as like a very high standard you really love and
want to keep in your heart…and we’re gonna take questions. Please try to direct them at the
whole group if possible but if you have questions for specific people,…it’s useful to tell them that
they’re for them.
Amanda: And we’re working in a twenty minute time frame so with panelists, there’s a little but of
a time constraint probably on you still. So we’ll just kind of feel that out. But we had twenty
Teach-In Transcript: Q&A/ Discussion https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LW41P0dgXZ5kAWrism…
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minutes for this, so we’d like to stay within that, do you agree, do you think that’s good? Okay. Yep,
go ahead with your question.
2:30
John: Me?
Amanda: Yeah, you were like,
John: But I was wondering, I mean, like,..I was wondering if maybe one of the most important
things that we could discuss is the series itself and the goals that it could possibly, well the various
goals that it could, that it is pursuing.
Amanda: Well, I think it’s a really good question, really what…
John: Taylor, would you want to talk about that? If you don’t, then I’ll just drop it.
Taylor: I actually missed your question.
John: Would you like to talk about the series, the teach-in series that this is the first one of…and
the goals that…
Taylor: I think…No.
John: No? Okay, never mind.
Taylor: I think we can end with that.
John: Okay, that’s fine.
Amanda: We can end with it, and I mean, John, reach out to Taylor and absolutely connect with
anybody, anybody here.
All right, taking a stack. Work the stack. Reminding panelists work the stack too. You know, let’s be
mindful of each other, not running over each other.
Eric has a question…
3:49
Eric: Okay, so, I wanted to kind of respond to what Levi said at the end about–not to say that
you’re wrong–but about the fundraising side and sex.
And my experience in talking with alumni is that their biggest concern is that you’re not having
enough of it and that it’s not as much fun as it was for them, so… [laughter]
So, I think there is a little bit of concern and misunderstanding about the SOPP. So that’s real.
That’s very real. And it’s difficult to convince people sometimes how sexy a word “yes” is, but
they…but, in terms of alumni perception of…I think there’s a worry on the part of administrators,
that also is very real. And that’s just because of the fragility of the College and they think that
anything that might get a rise out of somebody might screw the deal, so to speak. So I just wanted
to kind of clarify that.
5:10
Teach-In Transcript: Q&A/ Discussion https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LW41P0dgXZ5kAWrism…
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Eros: The idea that the alumni are worried that sex just isn’t as fun for us, just proves to me this
axiom of Antioch that Antioch was always way better right before you got there, and literally every
alumni will tell you that, and most will also insist that they were there for the golden age of
Antioch. So, you know, just so you know…
Levi: I don’t think I was there for the golden age of Antioch…[inaudible]… if I had been there in
the 90s…Oh I wish I’d been. [laughter]
Amanda: Questions…directed at Jane, she’ll put you on.
Jane: If you have the first question, you can just ask it. Or you can talk to me and I’ll put you in
this list. [laugher]
Amanda: You guys don’t have questions? … .I am like, I don’t even know what to do with myself
right now. I am going to pass out. No, okay, go ahead, I’m good.
Elijah: Just to reiterate, we’ve got people who talked about the closure of the college, how the
college was before, Nonstop and how the College Revival Fund parted from Nonstop and how
Nonstop was closed…or closed . And then we have the restarting of the College, we have restarting
governance after the College was open again. We have governance not being very forward…I just
want to remind you all of some of the different things we talked about, so that we can maybe
generate some questions if that helps you to remember.
Jane: Okay, I saw a hand from Rowan, so you’re up.
Rowan: This is probably a naive question, but what the heck is that back there? I have no idea. I’ve
been staring at it all night.
Jane: So, an unfortunate thing happened, which is that Casselli is a busy man with lots of
responsibilities. And he is currently at the theater helping out with the play that is tomorrow, so he
couldn’t show you this amazing puppet…Does anyone want to take on the task of explaining this
puppet?
Eric: That is…I guess you could call it a caricature of Dan Fallon, who was a Board member
and…And it was present at a–I talked to Mike, you know, before the meeting–and he was going to
talk about how that was present at a demonstration in front of Dan’s office in New York. He’s
Officer of the Carnegie Foundation, so they were right on the block…
[Amanda says something, inaudible.]
Actually Dan did give some money to the College Revival at that time.
Eros: What we’re , didn ’t…I can’t remember, w asn’t he one of the people who had wacky plans for
what to do…with the campus?
Eric: I’m not sure what his plans were. He was not one of the arch villains. I think that he voted for
the closure, but I think he continued to talk…
Hassan: He was on the negotiating team.
Eric: Ah, yes. On th e Unversity side of the negotiating team, so that was part of the reason why
they were there protesting.
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Timothy Grant, Class of 2018: So I have a couple, but…I only have one that [inaudible]. People said
that…People said that, a lot of you guys said that the College was heartbreaking, and I know it’s
always hard to leave your friends and to have goals for something that doesn’t really happen,but
with the friend kind of thing, this happened in 2008, I feel like there was social media and things
like that, you could keep together … And then with you wanting the College to be successful and
have a certain vision . W henever you’re working with other people, as a few of you have said,
you’re going to have to take, you know, compromise. So w hat exactly was it that made it, that
made people so passionate about it? W as it the attachment that new people had, that old people
coming in…or w as it…do you understand what I’m saying?
Dennie: Who are you asking, who would you like to direct this to , just generally?
Levi: Can I take a stab at it? Do you mean in the years immediately leading up to the closure and
during the closure? What about it made it more painful than just…?
Timothy: Yeah, so let’s say a freshman comes in, he comes in, or she comes in, and there’s money
that’s paid.and then it cl oses, it’s hard because you’ve put this investment in, you’ve met people,
now you have to go ..What exactly made–you guys put a little more emphasis on it than just that, it
was really heartbreaking…
Levi: So I have perspective on that, I don’t know if I have the only answer. I don’t know how
students currently feel, or faculty or staff for that matter, about this institution, but
I know that a feeling that was pretty prevalent when I was a student and when I was Community
Manager, is that this was…Nobody thought of Antioch as their school. They thought of it very much
as their home. For a lot of people it was the first and only place they ’d ever felt safe, or that they
could be themselves. And like, I still tell people that Antiochian is the most salient part of my
identity. Above and beyond anything else, and even being a mother, and I love being a mother.
Antiochian is who I am and I don’t know how to explain myself to people any other way than that.
So there was not only, was this only was our home and our safe place being taken away. Not only
was our identity being taken away in a lot of ways, but it was done in a really crushing way. I mean
this toxic culture narrative, you cannot underestimate how demoralizing it was. That it isn’t just,
like, you know, things aren’t working here. It was, “You, you are the problem. Y ou with your swear
words. You with the things you want to learn about. You with the people you choose to befriend
and love, you, and all your friends, who–by the way–are your family and who you feel safe with.
You and your faculty, who are the most brilliant people you have ever met and who blow your mind
on a daily basis. You and the staff, who you are grateful cleans the shit out of your toilet. You are
the problem and it is your fault.”
I mean, it’s really, I cannot, I mean for me, it’s like…I mean, it’s sad when a thing that you love
doesn’t work out. But this wasn’t just a thing that you loved not working out. This was like, you, at
your core, were not good. And you are being told that, and everything that you loved and
were clinging to is being torn away. I mean that is how I feel, that is how I felt, and still how I feel
in a lot of ways, obviously, because I just got really emotional about it. So that’s my perspective.
12:41
Bob Devine: If I could add to that…A lot of the effort of closure was, we’ve got to get rid of
faculty who are tenure because they cost too much. We’ve got to get rid of staff who are unionized
because they cost too much. We’ve got to get rid of Levi, because she makes donors nervous.
We’ve got to get rid of student culture that makes decisions because the inmates are in charge of
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the asylum. We have to clean all those things ou t and make it–
And all of these things are labeled and lumped into this category called “toxic culture”. And toxic
culture is really the culture of 18 to 22 year olds for people who have no experience with 18 to 22
year olds, and are worried about it and are afraid of them, and worried about all of the things that
happen on this campus.
At any rate…And that’s, that’s kind of painful because those were business decisions. They had
nothing to do with lives, careers, studies, nothing to do with anything human. They had to do with
business.
13:49
Eros: And a thing I’ll say, I think I kind of brought up the common experience of heartbreak at
Antioch. And Levi touched on this: the idea of uncomfortable space versus an unsafe space. Antioch
is supposed to be an uncomfortable space. People spent four years feeling uncomfortable.
So some people walk out of that feeling very angry about the discomfort they experienced,
especially people whose lives up until that point have been in comfortable safe spaces. Whereas
you get the other people who are coming from incredibly unsafe spaces, and then finding a space
that promises to be safe and oftentimes isn’t. We talk about the way that straight while men feel
excluded at Antioch — I noticed a big history of people of color, queer people, trans people,
especially trans women, women in general, if they chose to be loud, they felt just as, they felt
completely excluded, they felt completely unsafe. And so you had this space that was promising so
much and failed to deliver for those people.
And as far as Antioch being an uncomfortable space, an uncomfortable space in which you reside
for four or sometimes five, I mean at one point we were a five year college, and also we were a ten
year, twelve year college for some people. That’s a long time to experience discomfort, but that
discomfort equals a lot of growth.
But when…as people became more angry about the direction that Antioch was going, resources
were s ystemically removed from people and became harder and harder to access. And so, that
discomfort, that questioning, when you’re not provided the resources to heal from that, like when
you go do something extreme with your body, like, exercise, if your muscles aren’t provided the
resources to heal and grow stronger, instead of growing stronger, they get weaker and discomfort
turns into trauma. And that happened for very many people at Antioch. And then having it close
was just kind of, like…
And, first of all, the closure by the way, that whole year was perforated by, “oh, it’s not closing,
oh it is closing, oh, there’s hope, oh, there’s no hope. ” Like,constantly back and forth. So you’d
walking into Community Meetings knowing there was going to be a big announcement, your heart
full of hope just to have it crushed again.
And then you’d walk into your moldy buildings , your Caf hours, which were cut incredibly. I
remember one time because I was busy studying, I came into the Caf at the last minute, and the
only thing that was left was an entire cherry pie and that’s all I had to eat that day, because I
didn’t have any money, I was broke as shit, there weren’t really spaces to cook because the
kitchens available to students weren’t there. I wanted to cry so badly that day, and instead I just
ate my feelings in an entire cherry pie, and got very sick. But, like …It’s hard to describe, everyone
has difficult and painful experiences at Antioch, and that ’ s important, but when you’re not given
Teach-In Transcript: Q&A/ Discussion https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LW41P0dgXZ5kAWrism…
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the resources to heal from that, again , becomes trauma. And that leaves you marked and nervous
and afraid for a very long time afterwards.
Amanda: And just to say, the panelists you can use the stack also , so if you just want to raise up
your hand and Jane will get you on stack. And, John, clearly on the stack.
17:30
John: So, me and Rose have talked about this a lot…about how particularly heartbreaking it was
that…our history was almost immediately following , I mean…look at the strategy that was using
during Nonstop by the people in power. They realized that as long as negotiations were going on,
they wouldn’t have to talk to us.
And s o they….I mean so Laura Fathaur, for example, just believes that they were intentionally
delaying negotiations and trying to defund Nonstop so that we could be unemployed or out of
school before they had to talk to us because it’s a lot easier to ignore former faculty or
former students than current Nonstop students or current faculty, isn’t it?
And then once they got the keys, we ll then there’s this huge celebration. Of course the whole
town’s happy and not just become this closed campus that provide s no economic activity, no
cultural activity. Of course it’s better that Antioch College is open than closed. And so…I’m sure
that Rose has the same experience of running into people all the time who are just so happy that
Antioch has reopened, and they just have no idea about the fact … , at the same time, it was
killed–in terms of the purge I mean.
But once again, looking at you guys, as Amanda said, I see continuity here. I don’t think that
you…I’m sorry, I’m just gonna stop…I just, you know, I see a reflection–you guys are totally
Antiochian is basically what I was going to end on.
Amanda: And just so you kno w, as we get into this way, where we are having this conversation, it’s
much easier to apply the ground rules in this way. A nd I’m not critiquing or anything. As we get
into this, s o again, my perspective and I and using those terms can help and whatnot. You ’re not
being corrected– I’m not correcting you . No, no , no, John. No, no. I’m just thinking forward as we
get into this level of a conversation. I’m not, I’m not…you’re fine. You ’re absolutely fine, just
take a breath. You’re cool.
Rose: You’re fine, John.
John: It’s fine, no, I’m just reflecting.
Amanda: Totally cool. So, on the stack. Jane ’s keeping stack… So how are we doing stack? We had
Rowan…Rowan was on the stack.
Jane: Do we want to continue having this conversation that’s happening right here?
Amanda: So okay, so a way to work the stack is that , your hand goes up, you’re on the stack. And
even if you ’re hav ing a direct response, the place that you’re on the stack, you hold your response
to it until your time comes up on the stack. That’s how…when we get into direct responses, it
gets really tricky. This is how I say we go forward. And you can talk to me afterwards.
Ruthie Lane, Class of 2017: Does that mean, like, even changing questions, … ? C ause like, if
panelists want to also reflect on the same question?
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Amanda: Yeah, I mean, so it can work in the stack that it changes the question, You’re on the stack
Levi right now, and it might not be to this , but you keep on the stack, you add your things to your
time. So when Levi time comes around, if she still wants to talk about, or they still want to talk
about in response to this, that’s fine . A nd Rowan’s, and that… It’s your time on the stack , it’s
okay. So just trust in it. Those of us who are on the stack, y our time will come up, take your time
when it comes up . I f it brings it back up to something that came up three times ago, that’s okay . Is
that alright? It’s a little circular. Alright.
Jane: One more thing: I just want to make su re that, t here’s like a lot of people here who also
want to talk, just be mindful of how often you’re putting yourself on stack. A nd maybe if you’ve
just spoken, maybe Hold that moment, and think about it, and allow someone else.
Amanda: And trust that somebody else…Somebody else might have addressed it. You’re like, yeah
I feel that, okay good, you’re off the stack. It was Rowan. And it was Timothy. And then I saw Levi.
And then Micah. Who else is on the stack there? If you want to get on it, get on it. Stack’s a good,
stack’s a slow moving train, jump on. Anybody else on the stack right now? Thank you for helping
with names.
Eros: And I’m sure if you raise your hand and you’re acknowledged, you’ll be … [Jane says, You
should make sure we make eye contact.] You’ll get like a nod or something usually.
Amanda: Yeah, I’ll look this way and I’ll let Jane know.
Jane: Okay, Rowan.
Rowan: This question is especially directed towards Micah and Eric: Who or what created the
Antioch Continuation Corporation, whatever, AC3 1 or AC3 2…because I know it’s a separate entity
from Antioch [inaudible]…
Eric: That’s a good question. Others…Hassan might know…
Hassan: The team that was involved in the second round of negotiations. Eric Bates, that Jennifer
talked about; David Goodman, who is alread y on… ; Lee Morgan…they created that ACCC.
Eros: Yeah, I think it was independently organized, it didn’t come out of any particular…It was
alumni who either had money or influence in…[inaudible].
Hassan: Yeah.
Eric: At least one of them was on the Board, and voted not to close the college. That was Barbara
Winslow. And t hey, in my view, they fought very hard to keep the College open. One of the
things…The thing that created the most delay in the process was getting total independence. So
the University Board would say, “ Oh yes, you can autonomous. But you don’t own the name. You
have to report to us. You don’t have control over the assets in any way. ” So that was a stumbling
block to some of the biggest donors, who would not give to an institution that would continue to be
attached to Antioch University.
So that was part of the process, and I think some of the conversation about the motives later on in
the process, I have a different view of that. They came very close to making deals, but they also
stumbled over that last bit.
Amanda: Rose, as a panelist, had a response to this question? Or are you stacking?
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Rose: Yes, I had a response.
Amanda: So when you ask a question, all the panelists that want to respond can and then we’ll go
on to the next question.
Rose: I do want to be on stack though too. No I don’t, it’s okay.
If I remember correctly–AC3 and then the other organization that also failed negotiations–I don’t
know, I’m sure that’s probably true, but the organization that eventually did complete negotiations
and purchase the College for $5.8 million, is, was the Pro Tem Board or the Board Pro Tempore and
they were created by the Alumni Board and, you know, some of the…and given autonomy for the
negotiations and the Alumni Board did not restrict them in any way, so that’s like…I think that,
more in depth, answers the question, that those other negotiations that failed, they’re some of the
same people and some not the same people.
Amanda: Any other panelists have a response to that question?
Eros: Also…I guess it’s a little more than the original question now. Also one of the things that
happened, just to understand, for me this was actually a crucial moment, and again being very
fascinated by the history of this and how it happened, I’m going to probably narrativize it a little
more and maybe not stick to the facts, but…like what more I perceived as having happened.
The University was kind of holding out and the reason the college didn’t continue is because the
ACCC at one point gave a deadline, and said, if you don’t get back to us by now, it’s over. No more
discussion.
This is the point that I’m deviating from the facts: I think the University thought they were
bluffing. The University…It was in the University’s best interest to sell the College for money, and
eventually they did, but then they had the Reversion Clause so we actually didn’t have full
independence up until we bought WYSO and bought out the Reversion Clause.
But, I mean it’s….To me that’s one of the most pivotal moment in the history is when the
University just thought, we can just get a little more out of them. And it turns out they were in a
fairly desperate financial situation themselves. They had spent a lot of money building that
building, which they basically…I mean one of the reasons Antioch closed is because they built that
big building, and mean that can be maybe the primary reason. And it was not a great investment,
and they didn’t do too well by it. And they only became more desperate and that’s kind of what
allowed us to buy our reversion back.
I mean, it’s kind of, that’s to me is actually a huge heartbreaking moment. I kind of applaud the
AC3 for the temerity to stick by what they said, and at the same time, it’s the moment at which it
became…you know, discontinuity was introduced, and instead of allowing to stay open, keeping its
faculty, keep the grounds, keeping the students there, it closed and everything had to wrap up.
28:43
Bob: I just wanted to add a little bit to that. The University had serious financial problems, which
is why they came back to the table to begin with. There were two centers of the university, two
campuses that were hemorrhaging money. That was one problem. The second was that a downturn
of the economy at that time meant that the revenue from the endowment had dropped
precipitously because the markets were in the toilet.
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And they were really ..and they had figured out, finally, through legal channels, that the
endowment was not as fluid as they thought it would be if they owned the endowment, meaning
that they would have to go to every single major donor and get some kind consent to use the
revenue from the endowment. Because that was what they were really after, the college’s
endowment by that time was &30 million. And finding out that we can’t touch the endowment , w e
have two centers hemorrhaging money, an d not only that, but the markets are going down, what
are we going to do?
Rose: And they ha ve to pay property taxes..[inaudible]
Bob: Let’s sell the dog-on thing and I think that’s part of the background of the thinking in wanting
to make a deal.
Rose: We offered them $1 4 million …[inaudible]
Amanda: I’m sorry, Rose, but Eric was…
30:00
Eric: Eros was sort of getting into perception — your perception of what was going o n–I don’t
disagree necessarily, but I was fairly…I had conversations with Steve Schwarner, and he was
saying, “Five o’clock. If we don’t hear from them, five o’clock.” And Steve was not…He’s like the
guy, if you want to work a bargain, he’s like the guy you talk to. He’s not rich, right? It wasn’t a
game for him, he wanted the College open. My understanding for why they had that hard deadline
is because the timeline for student recruitment and the budget, what the budget would be for the
following year, if they couldn’t recruit students…And I believe it was April 1, of all days , you
know.
Amanda: It was April 1. I remember being there.
Eric: Yeah, so a s far as my understanding of motives…my perception is that they were honorable.
They were trying to…And they didn’t see how they could make it work after that time, because
they were already past other kinds of deadlines in terms of student recruitment.
Amanda: So, panelists, or do we want to keep working through the stack. It’s a choice .
31:42
Rose: Can I just say one thing? If I’m correct, that deadline was for a bid to purchase the College
for $14 million , right?
Eric: Yeah.
Rose: So the University–it’s usual to put a deadline on a bid like that. And the University passed it
up and had to sell the college for 5 .8, four years later, so…
Amanda: Okay. Stack. Where are we on the stack?
Jane: Timothy.
Timothy: So how does, like….you ask one question and then…?
Amanda: Y eah. So When it ’s your turn in the stack you get to ask one question. When it’s your turn
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and you’re on the stack about comment, you can reply to whatever things, you can direct, you
have to let us know, I ’m replying back to this or I’m thinking about this . But yeah man, no like
triple-loaded questions here, I can’t handle it. This is like…When they were like, let’s moderate! I
was like, Antiochians, you want me to moderate these people? Are you kidding me? I’m gonna ring
a bell. That’s all I got. Okay. Yes, so go ahead.
32:45
Timothy: So this one is kind of directed at you Eros, not totally though, anyone can comment on it.
Earlier you said that there’s a process, people want to feel involved, and a product, people want to
feel like there’s a result , which totally makes sense.
My question is why couldn’t that product, that process I mean, exclude the leadership? you guys
talk about them taking away resources, and there was a lot of talk about people not being able to
play the devil’s advocate because then there ’s the devils advocate, which goes into people
oppressing you who don ’t agree with you, which goes into you needing to heal from those
resources. Why couldn ’t there be a sort of, w hat was preventing the Community itself from working
independently, you know Nonstop Antioch in a way, where there was an exclusion, a mutiny in
way, where they got together and decided to change by themselves…[Rose mutters, “good
faith…”] Was it to the point where people were kind of too focused on being able to change the
leadership or was it an actual inability?
Amanda: Is that question clear?
34:07
Dennie: So, this parallel process happened with the Renewal Commission where there were
people–you know, educational consultants–who were, and a few other people, maybe two faculty
from the Antioch campus, participated for a year to create the big new idea about the new
Antioch–we had to reinvent ourselves.
And it was a totally secret process. We had no idea what the outcome was. And then the plan was
presented to the faculty, I think it was in the Spring of 2004, 2003 or 2004. And it was about
creating Learning Communities as the structure for the entire curriculum. And the faculty at that
point — We weren’t involved in this, it wasn’t ours, it was mandated. We knew that it would take a
ton of work and it might be an interesting idea , but it was already stated–Eric said very well, it
was like the curriculum was cooking.
One of the things about teaching at Antioch is we have this really deep engagement with students,
with ou r own scholarship, with ability to innovate and to design courses that really speak to
student interest and our own scholarly interest. And it’s a really exciting place to teach because of
this kind of relationship that we had, and because of the students who come here.
So we felt that we were doing really well and a lot of student satisfaction in terms of that
relationship. And to be mandated that there should be this complete change, you know, how do we
go from where we are to wherever they imagined they wanted us to be . A nd we had this moment
where we could have said, you know, we quit. We refuse to go there.
And I think so many of us were vested in the place–I’m an Antioch grad, a number of us are
Antioch grads–we cared about it, we cared about our students, and to walk away at that point
would have been a stronger political act and statement, but it was a really difficult one to make
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for us, because of our love for the place.
And we took it on. And there was incredible resistance because it was like, fuck you guys . This is
what is working . And you know Eric was great about saying. The physical plant was falling apart
around us. We were given these learning classrooms with technology, and it was like, [sound of
excitement ], you know?
And for the few faculty who decided to jump into the new curriculum, it was very exciting. We got
to go to Washington State and get some training. And we created something that was very much in
our spirit and in our, you know, in our…how we teach, it was very Antiochian. You know, it was
not all a success. Some of the partnerships were not that good, but it was getting there.
And so that was a moment that we could have walked away, and it w ould have fallen apart then.
And I think we were just hoping…We bought into this idea of being funded for five years, and then
after two years they pulled the plug, and that was what was so stunning.
We had already given so much to try and deliver w hat this very divorced, impassioned…Like it had
nothing to do with who we were and it had nothing to do with addressing what was really wrong
here. And we didn’t have any choice. We didn’t feel like we had a choice. And other people here
might want to support that.
Amanda: So Bob is going to reply and the other thing I want to say I hear within Timothy ’s
questions is w hy didn’t we just take care of ourselves? Why were we waiting on the leadership? So
that’s another part…But go ahead, Bob. I just wanted to say I also hear that within the question.
38:20
Bob: I just wanted to, again, fill in the financial background. When the enrollment from this
program that we were killing ourselves for at Antioch turned out to be going downhill, obviously
that had financial implications, and the College started to cut things.
And then the University decided, because, the University eliminated the Chief Financial Officer of
the College, eliminated the position, and so the Chief Financial Officer of the University was then
responsible for all of the finances of Antioch College. And the CFO of the University started to
charge to the College depreciation. Which it had never done, never done in all of the years of the
College.
So depreciation means how much does your physical plant depreciate each year? That turned out to
be a million three, and it meant take a million and three out of the budget. I don’t care. I don’t
care if there aren’t staff in the cafeteria, Eros. I don’t care if there aren’t people in the counseling
center. We don’t care, we have to take a million three out of the budget so that we can cost
depreciation.
Now the other part of the University trick at that time was that that had always been balanced
against endowment growth. So endowment growth was really just on paper, meaning the
endowment grew in money and they counted that as revenue. The depreciation is an expense and
they counted that as negative . B ut they always balanced, and the College never had to put it in its
budget.
The University decided, we will keep the endowment revenue in the University budget. And we will
charge the depreciation expense for the entire University to the College, and so it was taking a
million and three out of a budget that was already limping. And that meant, you know, everything
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has to be open fewer hours, there have to be fewer people, they have to be fewer faculty, there
have to be fewer supports. That was part of the motivation, and that was part of what started that
downhill.
Amanda: Rose had a response to the question?
40:25
Rose: So the question was about why we didn’t just do it on our own. And…I mean I think that’s
what we thought we were doing at Nonstop. The Alumni were funding us doing it on our own ,
right? And then the Alumni were funding us getting back the campus. And the people who were on
the Board decided to do what they would with the money they were getting, and they weren’t
giving it to Nonstop anymore. And we all thought that we were on the same side , and so…
I mean, o ne of my greatest regrets is that we didn’t just pull a new school, and just had Nonstop
here and broke into the building . B ut negotiations were going through and we wanted to buy the
College back. I mean, I think it would have been….Maybe something else would have happened.
But, like, the faculty were in a lawsuit because, just to keep the College open. We were in
negotiations. And we thought that Matt Derr and Lee Morgan and these people, when they couldn’t
tell us that they could bring us forward… They just couldn’t tell us but we just thought that we
would…and then they didn’t, and they didn’t, and they didn’t, and they didn’t.
And they said, with the new president, then we’ll hire the faculty, and the new president says, it’s
80% done , I mean, we’ve counted on good faith for so long, and then we were lost…And it wasn’t
there. I mean I think it wasn’t there. I mean some good faith was there, they obviously wanted
something, but it didn’t help my community and my family. My teachers are not working at
Antioch, so…
Amanda: So it’s Eros, and then John, and then any other panelists. Like I said, just put your hands
up, and I’ll getcha…
Eros: I assume the question is about the more recent governance push. When specifically
Amanda: Do you want to clarify, Timothy?
Timothy: As far as the time frame, it would be…That covers post-closure. But pre-closure, there
was focus trying to change how the leadership controlled the school and things like that… You
mentioned people oppress each other when they didn’t agree. And that caused people to use
resources to heal, [inaudible ] to cope with that kind of thing. And there were resources taken away
that prevented that healing, right? Am I understanding that right?
Eros: Yeah, I mean the resources that were taken away — We live in a capitalist society, and that is
a problem. That, I mean…I’m not gonna sugarcoat that. That’s a problem. The fact, the
resources…People need, people are required to maintain tied to structures and institutions in
order to survive. I mean you can always go out and do it on your own, but no matter how hard you
work, you may not be able to feed yourself, find a place to sleep at night, pay people a reasonable
amount of money to do hard work, you know, and that…I think that there’s been a lot of interest
in making sure, I don’t know….I think that, like people’s investment in Antioch makes them want to
reform the institution and, like, stick around.
And this is something that I kind of want to, I guess, share with people, because it’s been on my
mind tonight : that a former–Steve Lawry–said that the problem with Antiochians is that they’re
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trying to win their victories for humanity while they’re still at Antioch. And I think that if you
spend enough time in activist or nonprofit communities, you will basically hear people telling you
that all the time. It’s like, don’t rock the boat too much, don’t change the structure. Like, there’s
some good in here, so, and then also, if you want to do something else, just go do it on your own.
And I think sometimes that’s not sufficient. Sometimes you have to say, n o, I’m investing in this.
Other people are invested in this. This has resources and this can go somewhere good.
I’m gonna…I don’t know, When I was coming back here, a very good friend of mind, Shea Witzo,
told me that–I felt very conflicted about accepting, like coming back to Antioch when so many of
the people I went to school with and the people who were part of my community, and my
professors, and the staff members were not welcomed back. And I didn’t understand why I got in ,
a nd I still in some ways don’t. I think that it was like a clerical error. But anyway, she told me, she
said that sh e thought I should go and I should give them hell in the best way.
And I think that’s how oftentimes you can prove your love to an institution, is be unrelentingly
critical , but at the same time, pushing for progress and finding ways to fix things. And I think that,
that was, that’s been so much of Antioch and love it or leave it doesn’t work, you know…You do
love it, so you are going to fight for it, you are going to disagree with people, you’re going to get
into heated discussions and feel incredibly emotional about it , that– Again, also so much of
Antioch, like why it can be painful, because people care, people really do care.
There are so many schools who would give so much to have the kind of investment from students
that this school has. There are so many schools where people, after four years, they like coming
back to r eunion and getting drunk and maybe meeting a few new students. But it’s not, you know,
it’s not, reunion isn’t return home in the way it is for so many Antiochians. And that’s beautiful.
U nfortunately not all of those people have crap tons of money to give. And so…you know, no
matter how invested, they want people, like, literally invested.
But sometimes you got ta grab those people by the collar and say, l isten, I know you want Antioch
to be this one thing or not to change in this one way, but we are going to, or we are at least going
to tell you that’s what we want and if you ignore us, it ’s.. we’re going to make things difficult.
And eventually Antioch did go out and do things on its own, you know, the community got
together….That was happening during the closure. People realized that we didn’t have a plan B and
that’s what ExCil was and did create. The problem is, again, capitalist society. People need money
to survive. They couldn’t just continue on their own. There wasn’t anyone offering, you know, $ 10
million to fund it for the next however many years.
Amanda: So, John, and then I’m going to turn Jane over. [Inaudible chatter. ] Levi, yes… John is
replying…John, you’re replying to this question?
Thirteen hours, I’ve been working thirteen hours…seriously, eight o ’clock.
48:22
John: So, I’m a little bit afraid of offending some people on the panel, but I kind of want to echo a
little bit of what Rose said, but maybe a little bit more pointedly. There is this view that
Antiochians are all radical, and resisting and so forth…But there’s also the opposite view that
they’re far too nice and try to work within the existing leadership.
And I, you know, I thin k if you look at the history, you will see a lot of situations where people
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went along with the people in power to their own…you know, not to their own benefit. And I think
that it’s an excellent thing that you guys are organizing a student union, because you have to
learn, because also to be able to take those sort of stances, you need to know how, you need to
have the confidence that yes, you can fight this fight, and you can win. You can organize those
people that don’t even know about your struggle, don’t know who you are and you can get them on
your side, right? I don’t know if…you know , people always have the confidence, or know how to do
that. I mean, obviously people do a lot of that. I’m sorry, I feel like that’s offensive, but I feel like
there were some missed opportunities. I’m offended by my own words, even.
Amanda: So Levi, with a reply… I just want to say this, If we can’t get to it all. But this is an
amazing thing that has happened, and hope this opens up conversations and questions, and like, we
did this so amazing. Levi on this response.
50:00
Levi: So one thing that I want to say is actually there was a lot of care that happened sort of
outside just what the institution was hanging us. I mean there was a lot. It’s a very…you know, I
mean I’m sure this is still true, but Antioch was a very intensive experience and there was a lot of
organizing of…on a lot of levels. People, students especially, putting together their own sort of
teach-ins and workshops and discussion groups and support groups, and just events about making
safe containers or healing spaces, about…you know, Amanda used to do a love your body night.
Resources fr om the school… [Amanda interjects: “We didn’t masturbate, I’m just saying. We loved
our bodies.] It was different. But, you know, I think that things that were done with very little
money, sometimes with no money, or would have happened even if they hadn’t been institutionally
financed, so, that was happening It was. And I just want to say that, it was. It was happening.
But I think, I want to piggy back a little bit on what Rose was saying, that there’s, you know, that
ironically, during this toxic culture time, there was so much faith that things could just so easily be
resolved, and be better, and that, like this belief at the core of people there’s a goodness, and if
we can just access it, and we just want to access it, right?
I remember having this frustration about various presidents and people in the administration
that–and this is my own perspective, I can’t really attribute motivation to other people, I have no
idea what was going on in their heads–but it seemed to me like there was a lot of insecurity, a lot
of defensiveness around feeling threatened by students having input into decision making, by
having some of their authority ripped from their presidential hands and you know, and then they’d
be less of a man, I don’t know what it was! So…
But, you know, it’s like, why? It would just be so easy, to just go, you know, feels like that’s maybe
about me a little bit. I’m just gonna sit with that for a minute. I’m gonna…Yup, that’s my own
insecurity. This is going to hard, but I’m just gonna…I actually, they’re 18 or 19, maybe it’s not
that big a threat. I make, whatever, like hundreds of thousands of dollars, and they make nothing,
they’re poor and destitute. Maybe they’re not that much of a threat. Maybe let’s give this a try,
like why? Why? I think that’s a frustration. The solution just seems to easy. You shouldn’t have to
stage a coup for somebody to be like, sure, let’s make the decision together! It just seems so easy,
so nice, and collaborative, and not toxic at all. And yet, there is always this resistance…
And it’s frustrating, you know, all these toxic kids who wanted that, who wanted that
collaboration, who wanted actually everybody to have a seat at the table. To, you know, to be able
to sit and talk with the President, and the Dean of Students, and the Dean of Admissions, and
whoever else, and be like , here are problems we are all feeling, let’s come to a solution together. I
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mean, how kumbaya is that? And that’s the thing that’s seen as so threatening. I think that’s
why..The solution just seems so easy and so beautiful. I mean t t’s hard to let that go.
Jane: So, we got the stack. You’re next on the real stack. Also it i s currently eleven o’clock. The
panelists have been here for almost five hours. Congrats, everyone. [Eros asks how many people
are on the stack.] We only have…we have two panelists and three questions.
[54:1 0 – 55:24 is A lot of back and forth conversation about how we’re going to wrap up that I don’t
want to transcribe.]
Amanda: … assuming best intentions and all that , and I want to give you a high five on
this, b ecause I had panic attacks, possibl y , about how possibly this could go down and how many
hurt feelings could happen.So I ’m very, very proud of all of us, just saying. Because these are
intense conversations.
Jane: I was just going to say, that people can voluntary continue these conversations if they want.
I’m not saying you have to leave because it’s late. Im sa ying, be mindful of other’s people’s time
because it’s late and we’ve been here for a long time, so negociate this amongst yourselves,
anyway.
So, we have…the panelists who are on stack. You guys want to ask all the questions at once?
…That seems stressful.
Amanda: I know, I’m getting nervous.
[ M ore chatter that I’m not going to try to transcribe.]
Jane: So we’ve got Ellie.
56:32
Ellie Burck, Class of 2018: Okay, I guess… Going from the fact that lots of the professors weren’t
invited back to Antioch and that Nonstop was kind of shut down. I’m curious as to how
Non…participants in Nonstop and professors are still working with the college and if relationships
have start ed to mend, I know it’s still a really raw experience…yeah, I’m just a little curious along
that…and yeah, it’s a very deep question, and …ee.
Jane: So on stack before this question we have Levi and Micah if you guys want to answer first.
Rose: No, all questions!
Amanda: We went through the stack and people had taken their questions off the stack voluntarily.
Thanks for clarifying.
Michelle Fujii, Class of 2018: Wait, can I add a question? It ’s sort of related to what she said… I’m
just curious, why weren’t the Nonstop professors rehired, because it seems like they were the ones
keeping Antioch ’s spirit alive? Also, did the Nonstop students get the chance to rejoin Antioch
College?
57:50
Bob: For some people, there’s been healing. For very few. For many, they were brushed with that
wide swath of being toxic, and we don’t want them, don’t come near. Don’t even step a foot on
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campus. I saw that because I–I with a couple of former colleagues–talk about being in exile from
the college. Because if we said the things that are on our mind, or if we stepped on campus we
would be a danger to the kind of order and control, to the kind of whatever ha s been put in place…
For students , I think a few students can speak to that but I think it was for some people it was
devastating. It didn’t matter about the record, i t didn’t matter what they did. It didn’t matter
about what other things they did. Some people were asked to take extra courses in order to get
back into Antioch. Meaning well if you take an English course or you take a math course, then you
can get back into Antioch. And it’s like, what? I’ve been here for two years, and you’re saying I
can’t go to school here unless I go to some other institution and do something else? That, I think,
was devastating… That was saying, cut your heart out, you don’t belong here anymore. And I don’t
know if that heals , I don’t how that has healed.
But I know for the faculty, a lot have dispersed and gone elsewhere. And they will forever be in
exile and they’re, you know–apart from losing your career and losing your paycheck, and having to
move, and having to do something else, doesn’t matter where you are in your career–apart from
that, I think there’s still a feeling among a number of us, that we’re in exile. We’re just in exile. It
was a coup. It was a coup d’etat and just [*whish* noise].
Rose: Can we go like that?
Amanda: Yeah, that’s a great idea, Rose. Thank you.
59:55
Rose: So, I don’t know why the faculty we’re rehired. I would very much like to know that. I think
there are clues in the meeting minutes for the Board Pro Tem and the Board of Trustees, and I
would like them to be released . I asked for them many times from Matt Derr, and he always said,
oh, the lawyers are looking a t them, and they’ll be out next month. Apparently Scott Sanders has
said that the lawyers have deemed them un…unaccessible. They are not available to us. I don’t
know how that works legally, because they were a nonprofit , so.
Anyway, I–my literature professor got a job in Buffalo. I drove her there. Our media professor,
Chris — who’s why I came to Nonstop –s he’s in LA, an adjunct, driving in LA. Her partner got a job at
a museum.
I applied for the first year and, was… I never went to Antioch. I was told that I needed to go, that I
could get in the second year if I went to another school full time for a year, took only Gen Ed’s and
didn’t get a C. I asked many questions about that, I was told that the credits wouldn’t transfer in,
the Horace Mann Fellowship wasn’t available, wasn’t going to be , they didn’t know it was going to
be available later. I didn’t do that. I didn’t apply last year. Anyway, I don’t really have a great
academic record, so that’s probably why I’m not going to Antioch.
So…and, you know, people, Lincoln Alpern, who wrote an editorial in the last Record, was also
asked to do those things. He went to Antioch for a year, was a straight A student. He went on EA
for a semester, he was a straight A student. He was also asked to do those things . He came back
and lived in town. He volunteered at Work Project every month. He spoke up at Community
Meetings and he was asked to not volunteer at Antioch anymore. He was making people
uncomfortable. I think he applying this year. He ’s applied every year, he hasn’t gotten in. He has
his MA from London , from London University now, but he still wants to come here, so…
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62:55
Levi: So, I…I think I said, after I graduated I moved to California, and actually a lot of things were
going really well for me there, particularly in terms of career, things like, I was passionate about
what I was doing , I was increasing in responsibility and salary, I was winning victories for humanity,
it was fantastic. But I needed to be in someplace that felt more like home , and this was that place.
And I sort of–and you know some of this is me, this is my own delusions in my own head–b ut I
really felt like it was an exciting time, the College was reopening, and perhaps, perhaps there
would be a place for me here.
And actually I was on the Community and Community Governance T ask F orce. S o I would fly back
and forth, from California to hear for stuff, for meetings. And that.. t here were a lot of lovely
people on that task force, I want to say, first of all. Jennifer Berman, Al Denman being two of
them. I l ove them deeply and sincerely.
But overall it was not a good experience for me. It was actually a very frustrating experience. It
felt in many ways like it was an un-Antiochian experience. I did not feel heard at all . W hen I did
speak up for myself , I felt sh ut down. It was not well-moderated sometimes , like people would
literally… I would start talking, and people would look at me and go [disapproving facial
expression]. It was like, okay, I guess I ’m not talking now.
So that was…And I applied for a job here, that I did not get. We can talk about that one on one
sometime if you want to. And then I started, and I like volunteered, people, they were desperate
for volunteers for certain things, and I would volunteer and never get a call. And t hese things could
be coincidental. Again, I’m not trying to attribute motivations to other people. I really don’t know
what was going on in people’s heads and lives. And there were some very good people involved on
the other ends of these things. But It has definitely lead me to feel like there isn’t a place for me
here. Which maybe in some ways is appropriate, you know t here’s new…If the College had never
closed, if it had just continued, I would feel very legitimately like it belonged to the new students ,
whatever.
But I did begin to feel like there was something about me personally. I remember being told at one
point that, like the people I hung out sort of g ave me a bad image , and Rose and John Hempfling
were two of those people, so, I don’t know, they’re pretty bad eggs. So, you know, I… It’s been
hard for me to have good feelings about the new college.
And I’ve met a lot of really fantastic students. I mean, really…you guys are pretty awesome, a lot
of you that I’ve met. And some great faculty. And, you know, friends of mine still work
here. Friends of mine still work here. But it’s been hard for me to have good feelings about the
College. Like, I ended up working at Bentino’s , although I did just get a new job in my field, so yay
for me. It’s pretty exciting.
But I’ve working at Bentino’s, you know, because I have to pay rent , and you guys order pizza a lot
and have it delivered to the College, and I had to admit to my co-workers one day, I was like, when
that phone rings and it is from the College, I cannot answer it . Because there is a rage inside of me
that I just …I have to work, I have to work, and I ca n’t after I feel those feelings, so if someone
else could just answer the phone . Be cause i t did feel personal. A nd so it’s really great kind of
feeling to be here, and to be able to talk to you. And I know there are friends of mine who can’t
have anything to do with the college, can ’t read an article about it, can ’t read… you know , can’t,
just can’t engage, because it felt so personal.. .
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Amanda:Okay. I ’m sorry, no, I’m sorry. I hate that. I’m just really trying to..
Levi: Yeah, no, I’m done.
Amanda: I hate what you’re saying. I’m sorry I had to come in there. So, thank you, Levi, I’m sorry.
So we had set this up with the question that everybody had an opportunity. I’m just going to do a
time check. 11:11…
Eros: Everyone make a wish.
Amanda: Everyone make a wish. And if we can..I’m not going to close this. There’s four more of
you, so please find your words and respond if your need to respond to the question. And then we’re
gonna group hug it out. Okay.
Eros: I think that, I mean, that was a beautiful l a st question, both of you, because that’s so much
of what this is about. In th at Antioch Stories clas s I talked about, David Thelen, w ho documented
the Truth and Reconciliation Committee, talked about the need for this similar idea at Antioch and
that…
[Jane asks for clarification.]
Eros: What the… t he Truth and Reconciliation Committee…? Yeah, I don’t want to provide too
much context, because it’s a story that provides so much of its own…Oh god, I feel like I’m going
to say something wrong and stupid…
Amanda: Just real quick? I mean it ’s e ssentially a process that is used and has been used in South
Africa post- apartheid in order to talk about , air out, acknowledge, people were hurt and people
caused harm. Essentially that would be how I would wrap it up. And absolutely more justice –g o
Google that , okay?
68:50
Eros: So, yes. Thank you. Anyway, h e talked about the need, you know, there’s a similar trauma.
And to me I always say this trauma as this emotional thing that stuck with this community
emotionally. However, I have begun to see it has remained in this community structurally , where
people appear too close to, either through actual personal connection, or just similarly of opinion,
or demeanor, or dress, or identity, to what was perceived as toxic are still made to feel incredibly
unwelcome in this community in incredibly significant ways.
I do not want to get too personal but…There were two students who came in as former Antioch
students, and neither of us are here any longer. That…both of us have seen our friends forced out
and excluded in similar ways. I mean t hat trauma needs to be healed, because as long as that
perception still exists, that there was an evil Antioch from which we must separate ou rselves.
Anyone who is scary enough will be put in that toxic culture box, and will be, gone on to be
completely unheard.
I can’t express — in one very stressful meeting, like, just the idea of it , of there being, the
perception of it b eing a social cl ique, where people you’re tied to…I and Charlie, the other
student who entered with me, were pointed at and told that none of our friends would be going
here while we were still here. And if that answers your question about why Nonstop students are
not here…I mean, that ’s the answer.
Teach-In Transcript: Q&A/ Discussion https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LW41P0dgXZ5kAWrism…
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And that was, that was just, I mean, both of us felt what we can only describ e, like, survivor’s guilt
about being here. And [inaudible] in so many ways. It was basically someone coming up and telling
you this will never be your home again. And I ’m seeing that change and this is the way that needs a
change, where we confront that past, b ecause y’all are dealing with the ramifications of what
happened even though you’re no t being told the story. And I thin k… What maybe people didn ’t
anticipate is that y’all would be smart enough to figure that out.
But, one of the other problems is that, that then, all the responsibility for that is put on these
toxic students–like, no one would be objecting, protesting, getting angry if there wasn’t these
toxic students in there riling people up. So as long as you have this albatross of the concept of toxic
culture–that the College closed because people were a bunch of queer smelly meanies..Queer,
smelly, pot, socially awkward, or maybe just, you know, kind of unfriendly people here– we’ll
always be silenced and we’ll always be pushed out and it wil l continue to cause pain .
This is so much of what the answer is. I can’t tell you what this means to me. I’m still shaking.
I had spoken at Antioch twice before, after leaving , and I was nervous, but…I mean I’m still like
vibrating. I can ’t get over it. There are some scary, upsetting things to talk about, but we do need
to be talking about them . So, you know, the question about why aren’t they here, it’s because
they’re perceived as carrying this toxicity with them that would infect the other students. And part
of the Renewal Plan and also sort of p art of the plan when Antioch was on a block schedule, was to
make sure new students got a time here befo re old students came back was s o that way they
wouldn’t be tainted by…You know, we just kind of have to excise that, it was incredibly traumatic
to be labeled that way. And it does har m to current Antioch by making people afraid to speak up
and speak truth to power.
73:23
Micah: So I think that I’m probably the person up here who is most associated with the new Antioch,
which is interesting for me in the sense that I so recently remember going and protesting at the
University when they opened the new building and being outraged that the College was going to
close and singing at my commencement about this. I mean these are events, every one of us, all of
you too, have lived through.
And we all have our own narratives and hurts about it. I mean a lot of what Antioch has faced as a
community is scarcity. I mean there has been scarcity as long as I have been here. When I got here,
when we marched into th ese classrooms, there was a lot of upset from upperclassmen because
there was scarcity of the best faculty, because they were teaching in the Learning Communities.
There was scarcity in terms of dorm rooms, facilities…when the College closed, when the CRF was
unable to raise money for Nonstop, when the College reopened in 2009, we wouldn’t have students
on campus for two years.
So, I didn’t…I was fairly peripheral at that point, but I guess I would just caution against us as some
have here have done, ascribing malevolence to the people that were on this part of the movement.
So, truth and reconciliation, I think it’s a great idea . A nd there is a whole party here that is not
represented, and that’s the University. And in a lot of ways — not in a lot of ways — they are the
people that closed my college. Those are the people that closed my college.
The movement to save Antioch became fractured. Actually, even before we actually the keys to
the College and we all have a narrative of what truth is and what Antioch is and they all have
legitimacy and often tread on one another, so I guess I would just encourage folks to do one of our
ground rules is, which is assume the best intentions, and I know that ’ s a challenge, definitely, but
Teach-In Transcript: Q&A/ Discussion https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LW41P0dgXZ5kAWrism…
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if we can keep engaging, then hopefully we can not, sort of, create villain s, you know, and
monsters.
Amanda: Well, so, yeah?
Bob: I just wonder if I can piggyback on Micah.
Micah: I would be honored to hear what you have to say, Bob.
76:22
Bob: You’re absolutely right. This might be a downer for people, to hear all of that. But here’s the
up side. The upside is, as we said, they no longer have a University. Gosh, I have scars all over my
body from dealing with the University for the years that I did, but there’s no University that’s going
to affect your future. And what I know, that gives me optimism about you all, is that throughout
Antioch ’s history, it has always been students with a few faculty allies that has moved the College
forward. The administration has never moved the College forward. [laughter] Overarching
structures have never moved — It has always been the push of students with a few faculty allies. It is
now your college. You can make it any kind of college that you want. You just have to keep
pushing, and keep remembering that. It’s your college.
Elijah: Go to ComCil. [laughter]
John: Thanks, Bob. Yeah, a ll I want to add is that this event has meant so much to me . T hank you
guys.
[applause]
Amanda: A few closing comments…
Levi: Can I just say…well, I never got back to my thing on stack, which was one thing that I just
want to say, because we’ve talked so much about these very personal injustices, and that’s real.
But if that, you might, maybe you don’t know us and maybe that doesn’t resonate with you, so
something Bob said a couple of times a while back is that one of the injustices during the closure
and the reopening, it is a very political issue around, I mean would it be fair to call it a sort of
union busting? I mean, so if this is, labor…
Amanda: I just want to be mindful of our time…[inaudible]
Levi: So if labor issues are important to you, the issues of tenure and higher education, I mean you
don’t have to care about our stories personally, but that should be something that’s politically
interesting to you and that’s foundational to what’s happening here, so I think there’s…a motivation
to want to move on from those things, and, well, the past is in the past, but it is foundational to
how this institution being built, so it is something that needs to be wrestled with…
Amanda: Levi, you’re pulling out a notebook?
Levi: It’s not really a notebook…
I just want to just say something about making villains, I think it’s real to not demonize people, but
also, good intentions aren’t necessarily free pass because consequences are really what matter.
And it doesn’t mean to make villains out of people, because they mean well, but it doesn’t mean
that they did well.
Teach-In Transcript: Q&A/ Discussion https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LW41P0dgXZ5kAWrism…
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And, you know, the Learning Communities, and isolating first year students from the older
students, that people wouldn’t be traumatized meant that, trans and genderqueer students were
incredibly isolated from other trans and genderqueer students, and that did harm to them, so I’m
not going to debate the validity of like protecting people in this sort of container and not having
scary older students and whatever, but there is a consequence that people were harmed in that
process. So that’s like, yes, don’t make demons out of people, but think about the consequences of
actions and deal with that.
Amanda: Thank you.
[applause]
Jane: It’s all you.
Amanda: Alright. All me. There are things that I like in my life, pedicures, foot rubs,
chocolate…no, the things that I really love in my life are keep engaging, I work on the fourth
floor…one thing I wanted to say about this last question is that there were people who had to
leave early, right? And I just wish they had been here, for that question. SO, I don’t know that they
want to talk about it or answer that question, I can’t speak for them, but I encourage you, maybe,
to think about that last question, and email them and say, here’s this last question that came up,
can we talk about it, maybe? Because the people that unfortunately left are the people who came
back in to work here, so I think that their narratives and stories are also really interesting. So be
mindful of that, and I do encourage them, and I will give them a heads up, that questions might
come along…
Greta Treistman, Class of 2017: How do we contact them?
Amanda: They all have Antioch College email addresses.
I was speaking only about the people who have left here probably all have Antioch college emails.
Thank you so very very much. This is a really beautiful thing. I’m really, I just can’t say it enough
how proud I am to be a part of this, and I’m really proud of all of you for showing up, showing up
full soul, body, mind. Take care of ourselves, and take care of on another. One thing that I will say
I don’t want to see recreated at the Antioch that we are here and now, is that I feel like, for as
small of a college as it was, we got really bad, and this my perspective, this is how I felt, is making
eye contact, saying hello. And it killed us, simple steps. See each other. See your faculty. Make eye
contact and say hello. I don’t care if you think their politics suck. I don’t care if they made you
angry. I don’t care if they want playboy and you don’t. Eye contact, head nod, hello. Let’s…that’s
a simple, simple thing. I think that’s…Jane, I swear to, just kidding, no, Jane you’re the other
moderator, and Taylor too, go ahead…
Jane: Here’s just one thing: when you leave, can you clean up after yourself? Thanks.
Amanda: Thank you all.
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Teach-In Transcript: Q&A/ Discussion https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LW41P0dgXZ5kAWrism…
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